Ramblings of the mind today

[maderr]

Traditionally marriages were for children, money, power, etc. Love was an afterthought, if a thought at all. Children being key here, there is little to no reason for same sex marriages.

So, a society which had them would either be rather more lax about children (as in, bastards and adoption and such are not an issue), or there would have to be another reason for them.

Nixing further ramblings on that point, the conclusion I eventually came to was that magic might add a viable reason for a same sex marriage. If we go with the theory that some manner of special bond increases/improves/whatever magic, and combine that with the usual power and affluence reasons, then we have a most viable reason.

Further ramblings led to a couple of different possibilities, one of them being polyamorous in nature, but the one I thought most challenging (and thereby interesting) to work with was the idea that magic wasn't common to everyone. Or rather, it couldn't be common to everyone. I forget how I came to it, but I liked the idea that following a magic path results in infertility. Therefore, families would have several children, for to contract 'blood marriages' for begetting further heirs, and 'magic marriages' for to keep the family strong in magic. If marriages strengthened/improved magic, and also had the usual political and financial benefits, combined with the same from blood marriages, then we have a world that is rife with more politics than I feel like dealing with.

That is to say, with some refinement, this could be an interesting world - except heavy politics are not my strength, and i've too much else to do, and I have no idea what sort of story this would become anyway. But reading Devil's Fire made me think about a society that just accepted such things without real social/cultural reasons for it, and I wondered what sort of reasons might exist. This was actually how Harem and eventually Sandstorm came along. Though this is more complicated, which is why I'm jotting down notes (and man, do I ever love the note program thingie that came with office 07) and then going back to other shit.

I think the poly came in with the thought that perhaps in such a society, more than one spouse might be contracted at leaset in the case of magic marriages (though i wasn't too certain about blood marriages, that would come with further refinement of this still very very rough idea, I guess really they would have to be the same, but we'll see).

Hmm hmm. It's a thought, anyway.

Comments

[mechante-fille.livejournal.com]

Ooh, fun!

Hmm... so following the magic path leads to infertility. Does a magic bond require a same-sex relationship, or it just doesn't matter because they are infertile anyway? Do some of the people who have magic end up in non-magical blood marriages, or do they maybe carry the gene for it anyway, to keep it in the blood. Or maybe because it is magic, genetics don't matter?

[maderr.livejournal.com]

Doesn't matter, I would say, though I also had a passing thought that maybe same-sex bonds were more potent magic wise.

Hmm, I think everyone is capable of magic, but not everyone follows that potential? Perhaps following it to and past a certain point, maybe a set number of years, results in the impotency. So the genes for it would carry on. I thik that makes sense? ^^

[moonkitsune.livejournal.com]

I like the idea. I think Negima touched on this, though partners where connected to one magi, who had many under his/her circle, and those partners could either have magic or none. Those that had magic helped strengthen the magi or helped protect them when they delivered magic (because when a magi is casting a spell, they are open to attack), and those that do not have magic could have special skills that a magi would want in his circle. This was done through 'contracts' and a magi could contract a wide assortment of people under him, men or women. I think they mentioned a couple that where both of the same sex. They also pointed out that contracts sometimes lead to marriages, but the contract itself was seen as something of a strong bond in itself regardless of marriage.

I also read Dark Lord of Derkholm by Diana Wynne Jones. (Pardon me. I still have not learned how to link to other pages or I would have.)In the story, it's said that since wizards live for so long, relationships are hard and most last only several years. (Which I could see would be another reason for same-sex couples to happen because it would be more for companionship or sharing of great minds than that of children.) When it came to children, Derk, created his own by using magic to splice the genes of his wives into other creatures, like griffins and even thinking of dabbling in mermaids. He still had children that I'm guessing where made the natural way, but I liked the idea of creating a child using magic. (It never explained exactly how he went about it though.)

[rykaine.livejournal.com]

So do the parents choose who's to be magic-mated and who's to be blood-mated? Or do the kids actually get some say? 'Cause I could totally dig the reluctant "bride" potential in the former scenario.

And, does who you mate with magically have any affect on magic ability/traits/behavior/whatever. Does it enhance them magically? Does it provide like more resources from which to draw the magic?

Or is it more the same as combining two powerful families. Doesn't really change anything in the world, but goddamn does it look pretty.

Goddamnit, now you've got me all *_* (though this does at least put Questor's sequels out of mind FTM).

[mailechan.livejournal.com]

You also had a bit of this theory in Kidnapped, right?

[maderr.livejournal.com]

I'd imagine it's predominantly parents and all, though I'm sure nicer parents give the kids a liiitle bit of say.

I would say it does affect magic - I've not worked out the finer points. Ah, resources. Now that's interesting, sammikins. If it was the sort of magic that required tools and ingredients and stuff, then that would be an ever better reason to contract magic marriages - access to this or that supply, things like that. You rock!

Sorry? ^^;; I wish questor would cooperate for you.

[maderr.livejournal.com]

Mm, yeah, the magic-enhancement element is similiar to the Draconis. I think the one planet had same sex marriages, but that was b/c marriage was a sign of stability and stuff - gender was a nonentity, as it were.

[rykaine.livejournal.com]

So, then it's not just about mating with a magic dude the next town over. You want the pimpenest magic dude the next country over. For, y'know, "resources". ^_^

So do I. I want to finish it, so I can write Armis' so I can do Harringer's. He's so angsty and kicked puppy and *wibble*

[cobecat.livejournal.com]

I remember reading that book and finding it interesting as well...and yeah, it never really did explain it in-depth. The griffins at least were hatched from eggs, and I think he used some sort of combination of magic and gene splicing to get the various genes into the eggs. Past that, no clue. ^_^;

[sunandshadow.livejournal.com]

Aw, no consideration of the possibility that magic could enable gay conception of children?

But my love for mpreg aside, I can't help but think how sad the idea of a world where you could have magic or children but never both would be. There would be so many people who would chose magic when they were young and then regret it as they got closer to middle age and wanted to settle down. Or practically, especially if there was a clan structure, I bet it would result in pressure on young people to have some target number of children and then begin magic training after they had some heirs.

Very intersting idea!

[saaski-moql.livejournal.com]

Would this be a world where all individuals had magic within them, but could decide whether or not to bring it out (as in, they could almost choose to be non-magical simply by not tapping in), a world where some had magic and some did not, the ones who had it varying in power (which might be a reason for parents wanting magic marriages--to gain magic users in a family where there was only smidgens), or a world where everyone had magic like it or not, but infertility from magic marriages only resulted from a bonding ceremony meant for the magic itself? Or something else?

Also, if 'magic marriages' resulted in fertility, they would only keep the family strong in magic for the couples duration because there would be no children after them to continue the line (unless you fit adoption or something of that ilk into the plan). Although if the families do have enough children, that wouldn't be a problem...

Oh! Would the family name be passed down through the son, the daughter, or the child could choose who they would align with? Because if a family had four children with two for "blood" and two for "magic" but all the children ended up being girls and the family name is only passed down through the male, well...no more family name. I think?

[hopechest.livejournal.com]

It brings to mind the Wraeththu of Storm Constantine's books.

Wraeththu are true hermaphrodites, possessing both male and female sexual organs and appearing androgynous in general outward appearance. [...] One additional notable characteristic of Wraeththu is their need for regular hermaphrodite sex, known among Wraeththu as aruna. Hara who are deprived of aruna suffer, as their bodies require exchange of essential life essences in order to run properly. Wraeththu even use aruna in magic, performing the ritual of sex magic, grissecon, in which aruna is used to work great acts of healing or the creation of magical weapons.

It sounds sort of like a silly I suppose, a fangirl cliche maybe like mpreg, but I liked the books, although it does play heavily on the angst sometimes.

[niravive.livejournal.com]

Totally off topic, but I got my copy of Always There today, and mmmmmmmmmm.... it's gorgeous! I've only briefly skimmed through, but so far I'm in love. Frankly with all of your books. They're all so nummy! *goes back to lurkerdom*

[spurious-sanity.livejournal.com]

oooh, that sounds so interesting!

Just a rather depressing question: if marriages were made for breeding strong magic users, so to speak, what about inbreeding? surely it was too tempting for some people at some point? would this create special traits or deformations in the children's magic?

Are there several classes of magic users? with various rights/privileges? cause I'm guessing that would create an extra incentive to try to get children with stronger magic?

Do those who don't have magic/chose not to have magic respect, fear, envy and/or resent those with it? do they live in harmony? and who rules the country/society/whatever?

...okay, that was more than one question..^__^; sorry. I hope the idea co-operates with you. ^___^ *slinks back into lurkerdom*

[marasmine.livejournal.com]

There is always the idea of a gross imbalance in sexes leading to the acceptance of same-sex marriage as the norm. Society might recover from the imbalance but retain the tradition.

If you go for a communal / clan / extended family setting rather than a nuclear family the child rearing becomes a clan matter rather than a couple thing. (My brain is going in too many directions with this.) If the 'child' owed the clan for birth and upbringing, the payment might include producing a replacement child for the clan and or marriage for benefit. 'Paying' with a short term breeding relationship while young might leave individuals free to find a loving relationship later on. Maybe 'contracts' rather than 'marriage'.

Too many possibilities!

[forloveofsnape.livejournal.com]

This idea was explored in the original fantasy slash epic(s)http://www.logophilos.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=15&Itemid=16 The Darshian Tales, by Ann Somerville. Not the matching so much, but mages being infertile. It actually becomes a major plot point along the way. I think you'd like these stories, actually, they're in a wonderful fantasy setting not unlike Prisoner. The stories are more serious than yours, but I certainly like both hers and yours, so... There's some D/S on that site so I just ignore it and stick to the Darshian Tales. They are very long, I tackled the ones that were up over summer vacation a couple years ago. then have been reading the new ones during subsequent vacations...:)

Anyway, I'd love to see you play with your ideas, I'm sure your story would be very unique and well done. I'd love to see a long epic from you!

[jessara40k.livejournal.com]

'Paying' with a short term breeding relationship while young might leave individuals free to find a loving relationship later on. Maybe 'contracts' rather than 'marriage'

That sounds a lot like something from the Liaden universe, but Lee and Miller. "Each member of the clan shall provide an heir to the clan" Or something like that. They do contract marriages for most children, and lifematings for love. But no same sex marriages have been shown, just some same sex lovers.

[maderr.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes. Logos. I suppose I should get around to reading her stuff someday.