Early morning I don't want to go to work, so LJ, post

[maderr]

I am eight chapters and one epilogue away from finishing Bound. It should have been done ages ago. My stories always stall toward the end. I think this is because I am most fearful of endings. More books than I can't count have sucked it up right at the end, so the last portion of any story is always the hardest for me to write. Am hoping to make myself get on with it tonight, but we'll see.

Last night I harassed nikerymis about dragons. My brother and I discuss dragons alot, and he called me Saturday, and they have ever since been on my mind. Trolling ebooks yesterday stirred them further. The one issue my brother and I discussed was the coping out most often used of turning dragons into humans so they can interact with other humans. Being a romance writer, and a slasher, this is something I pretty much have to use. Dragons in general tend to be pretty damned broken in terms of magic and stuff. I would say it would be neat to see a story where a human falls for a dragon that cannot take on a human appearance, but I'm already writing it ^_~ It's...one third finished? I really want to get back to it. After I finish Bound, my plans are a handful of fairytales, the Black Magic rewrite, and one of three long stories - Butterfly, Cursed Knight, or Weathermage. Not sure which yet.

But, getting back to dragons, I also wanted to play with the whole lizard element. This is why I was pestering nikerymis; she's very good at hashing out details with me ^_^ There are two basic body types for dragons - the more hulking beasts and the more serpent like style. Obviously there are gradations, but those are the two starting basics. How would either manage if they were, in fact, cold-blooded? If you throw in magic, obviously it's not so much a problem. Magic is there to take care of such things. But what if there was no magic? Or, what if using magic for purposes of combat, etc, meant it could not be used to stay warm? Going back to the body types, it would also depend on which type of dragon -- the hulking ones probably would need an internal or magic heating system. But what about the other type?

So, this gives rise to environment. Something like volcanoes? Merely tropical? What else might work?

Of course, all this led to the dragons needing/living on highly coveted land, which could give rise to a nasty feud with the humans trying to take it. And if you throw in the different kinds of dragons, then maybe the self-sustaining ones could be against the ones that require external assistance, or they could overcome years of dislike to work against the humans...

All sorts of awesome possibilities. Dragons are always FTW.

And now, alas, alack, I have stalled enough and musts to work.

On the brightside, it is Opening Day (baseball) and that means FREE YUMMY FOOD and I can wear jeans to work.

Comments

[kiyoshi-chan.livejournal.com]

It might interest you to know that eastern-style dragons are actually water creatures. The dragon kings of myth and legend are rulers of the seas and they live in palaces underwater.

[maderr.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I know, but I'm really sticking to east and west in the details. The point here is dragons in fantasy, not RL myths.

[kiyoshi-chan.livejournal.com]

It would be interesting to do a water-dwelling eastern dragon that doesn't really require him to be warm though. Not /cold/, but I dunno, lukewarm?

(That's actually kind of a funny thought.)

[maderr.livejournal.com]

Could be, yeah. Though, I think the cold element might be more interesting than lukewarm. The whole play on temperature and what's required would be intriguing, especially if you start crossing the dragons - what would happen if a cold dragon and a hot dragon had a child? Hmm hmm hmm

[kiyoshi-chan.livejournal.com]

:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD Always happy to contribute to potential ideas.

[kiyoshi-chan.livejournal.com]

Also is it only a question of water vs fire? Would an earth or air dragon be hot or cold? :x *is kinda curious now*

[maderr.livejournal.com]

Heh. I forgot how evil the ki-chan could be. So maybe a whole world's worth of dragons should be developed. I'd think air would be more cold - the higher you go, the colder it gets. Earth, probably warm? Nikery suggested dragons that hibernate when they get too cold, and need to recover strength, so maybe the earth dragon can be the gigantic, more western-style and they hibernate during the cold months?

[kiyoshi-chan.livejournal.com]

*grins innocently* Only one world? ;) Between all of us I'm sure we could come up with more than that.

That is true. And earth is kind of opposite of that - the lower/deeper you go the warmer it is. Good point, good point.

How about fire dragons then? Do they need more or less warmth than earth ones? If they need more warmth, then even early autumn would be enough to knock them out? Hmm.

[kiyoshi-chan.livejournal.com]

Oh, and it just occurred to me that hibernation is a way of storing reserves. So does that mean earth dragons need the heat the way most creatures need nourishment? Is it that heat is their sustenance or is heat needed to keep their food alive? :O

[kiyoshi-chan.livejournal.com]

Ooo oooo! Do the cold dragons hibernate in the warm months? :O

[tsubaki-dono.livejournal.com]

Oh the rules, they make the boundaries. I was thinking something similar in terms of environment; unfair that dragons are so powerful and the level of benevolence required to tolerate the scourge of humans never does make sense to me.

And I was thinking dragons need some limitations to balance the power...? Extreme conditions to separate the species with less areas to overlap and create conflict save for special circumstances...

*goes off to think about it some more*

[tsaiko.livejournal.com]

Talking about the cold-blooded thing, as body mass increases the reliance on external heating sources decreases. So something the size of a dragon (that is, something larger than a saltwater crocodile which at 21ft and around 3,000 lbs is the largest living reptile) would have a decreased need for external warmth. Their own body mass would generate enough heat, thereby blurring what is cold-blooded and warm-blooded anyway.

Or they could just live in thermally active areas and take advantage of that as their external heat source. I can totally see a dragon taking advantage of a hot springs in winter. XD

[spurious-sanity.livejournal.com]

...okay, I now have this image of a person coming to a famous tourist spot hot spring thing, humming cheerily to himself, only to find it full of dragons...

...I think he found a different vacation spot.

[tsaiko.livejournal.com]

I don't know. He could have just slipped in and enjoyed the hot springs with the dragons. I'm sure they wouldn't have minded sharing.

And boy, does that sound like a trashy ebook plot *cough*.

[spurious-sanity.livejournal.com]

*SNOOOOOORTOFLAUGHTER*

oh, you mean, he enjoyed the hot springs with the dragons, hur hur hur...

[tsaiko.livejournal.com]

Most relaxing vacation he ever had. XD

Darn it, now I kind of wish I had the time to write this out.

[spurious-sanity.livejournal.com]

Yes, I'll bet he felt quite sated afterwards.

*magically creates a tear in the space-time continuum* please, go head and write! XD

[saaski-moql.livejournal.com]

There was this really, really cool Discovery Channel thing about dragons where they literally envisioned what it would be like if they existed, how they could function, what their body types would be, the whole fire-breathing thing--it was pretty awesome how far they went. I'll go see if I can't find anything about that for you, if you'd like.

[jamafanta.livejournal.com]

I saw that, it was gorgeous. I saw it on Animal Planet... ... go here http://animal.discovery.com/convergence/dragons/, it has a blurb & a preview. I believe the whole 90 min show can be watched in 10 minute segments on Youtube.

They ask all the questions you were asking, and then back up some very inventive science with beautiful CGI imagery. They do four of them, prehistoric dragon, marine dragon, forest dragon and mountain dragon.

It's gorgeous, no other words for it. And, it's narrated by Patrick Stewart!

[saaski-moql.livejournal.com]

What this cool person said!

[alice_montrose]

Shall not go on and on about dragons... indeed, must not do that... stay focused... of Varen will eat my brain again and I won;t be able to focus on midterms and thesis... shall ignore the dragons until graduations...

YOU, on the other hand, should FEEL FREE TO WRITE ABOUT THEM! A LOT!

[broken-moons.livejournal.com]

After I finish Bound, my plans are a handful of fairytales, the Black Magic rewrite, and one of three long stories - Butterfly, Cursed Knight, or Weathermage. Not sure which yet.

...Sage? *puppy eyes* Though, Weathermage, yum. *___*

[maderr.livejournal.com]

Sage too ^__^

[nikerymis.livejournal.com]

Dude, you wrote it all down. ^___^ Now I really can pester you into writing this stuff later. Oh, but what is this dragon-who-cannot-turn-human story? ::lost::

::confused:: And what the hell is Opening Day and why do you get free food for it?

[maderr.livejournal.com]

The Last Tale of the Cursed Knight. Have you read any of it? Want what I have?

Opening Day is the first day of baseball season. It's an excuse for pretty much every office in the city to order picnic food and goof off. Which, is mostly what we did. Mmmm, hotdogs and potato salad.

[nikerymis.livejournal.com]

Oh! That one. ^__^ I knew I knew it, but I was just drawing a giant blank. But though I do remember now that you've supplied title, I most certainly would not mind seeing it again? ^__~

Oh, that's kind of awesome. ^___^ Is there a baseball team centered in Cincinnati? I know there's a football team (and that they're pretty bad).

[maderr.livejournal.com]

*dies laughing* Oh, god, even you know our football team sucks. That is beautiful. Yeah, we have a baseball team, they're only slightly better - the Cincinnati Reds.

[nikerymis.livejournal.com]

::grin:: Well, I do have a slight connection to football -- every year my dad makes us do this family football pool. All I know is that Cincinnati is bad, the Patriots are usually good, and everyone else I go by their stats. ^___^

[cjandre.livejournal.com]

Another aspect of the hibernation thing would be the idea of a huge pile of serpents together in a winter shelter - like snakes! Mmmmm - Gives me interesting visuals.

:-)

Also, if cold is an issue when the dragon is in dragon form, is it an issue when they are in human form? If size is a factor, then the human body shape, being much smaller, might actually be more susceptible to cold - assuming that their internal workings don't suddenly become mammalian when they shift. This could lead to an interesting situation where dragons in cold regions can't shift during the cold seasons. Local legends would be all about how dragons only come out in the winter and then disappear in the summer, when in fact they are there year round, but are in human form in the summer.

Mmmmm so what if someone fell in love with the dragon form and couldn't stand the human form, not having made the connection that they are the same person? A draconic Zorro! Hee!

[maderr.livejournal.com]

I approve of these visuals.

Interesting. You're right, in human form they'd be more vulnerable. I like the local legend stuff too, that's pretty rockin'. Never would have thought of that ^___^

[cjandre.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you approve. :-)

I need to think of reasons why the dragons shift to human. Presumably they can shift to other things, either that or there is some symbiotic or cultural relationship that has selected for shifting to human (or some kind of breeding program - it all depends on whether one is writing about dragons as a naturally occurring race or a magically created one).

Your stories have that wonderful symbiotic Owner/Dragon relationship, which explains the shifting to human. I didn't think much of dragons prior to reading your stories - now I find myself becoming rather obsessed.

;-)

[spy-c.livejournal.com]

For the curious, I have actually read a story out there somewhere of dragons who live in the desert. They are in fact coldblooded in a weird sort of way. They run their bodies off of the sun, kinda like solar power. It was an interesting concept. And, the authors note stated that she had always wondered where you get the amount of resources to feed a dragon. If they're so big, then the amount of livestock they would consume a day would cause major problems.

[(Anonymous)]

Reptiles are more likely to fight when it is cold because they cannot afford to run and won't be fast enough. This would be interesting to add to the summer/winter idea since aggression is temperature dependent.

hi!

[(Anonymous)]

I've commented before, once in a blue moon, but as a biology student I just couldn't miss this opportunity to show off :)
Basically, the colder the environment the smaller the reptile has to be to be able to heat its blood up enough (otherwise the skin:insides ratio gets too low). One way to cheat, however, is to use a large flap of skin (or sail) that's got lots of veins running through it to heat the blood (like Dimetrodon: http://lesdinos.free.fr/dimetrodon.jpg). Another trick? Feathers = insulation!
I hope this helps a little, and I'm definitely looking forward to the resulting story :D
x
Eva