She's crazy, but I can see where she's coming from. Pick up a Princess coloring book and flip through the pages to read what they say. It's depressing.
Not to mention poor Jasmine in Kingdom Hearts who's all "Oh, Aladdin!" and "Eek!" now. x.x Mergh.
Oh, I know! My little cousin is addicted to that stuff and I was a little O.o at how helpless the princesses are. Most of them, even the older ones, were a little more self-reliant in the movies.
Nothing wrong with being a princess, but I don't know why they had to dumb them down.
I think we're all confusing the actual factual princess with that of the one in little girls' heads.
I don't think girls are looking at these princess in the same way we older, jaded, and more readily capable of extoling the themes and underlying messages adults. I think for more little girls, "Princess" is synonymous with "special" or "important".
You're not just another little girl the dentist has to exam. You're worth his time and his attention. You're not just one more little girl the lady at the counter has seen today. You're worth noting and seeing and singling out.
I see similar reactions when I hand each kid individually a toy or peace of candy after I scan it at my register. I've litterally seen little boys puff up when I hand them a bag and say, "Thank you, sir."
Girls aren't seeing "patriarchal oppression" or simpering, helpless maidens. They're seeing someone special and important. Some worthy of notice.
I think I'd've been rather sad if, when I was five years old, I thought my mother didn't want me to be a Princess.
Michael Medved actually discussed that a few nights ago... sigh and alas, I missed most of it because I was with a client. But this: though I'm not thrilled to have my Japanese-Jewish child in thrall to those Aryan features. (And what the heck are those blue things covering her ears?) just seems to make the whole thing hiccup.
I mean, when Aryan and Jewish wind up in the same sentence, something is just off.
She was certainly off on some points. And daaamn was that long.
However, it took me until college to get over the societally imprinted concept that I had to be looking for Mr. Right and planning to get married in order to be happy.
Here's where I confess to watching a lot of cartoons: To me, it's the difference between WITCH and Wynx Club. WITCH is just fine by me; the girls are certainly feminine, but they're also typical kids rather than glorified ideals. Wynx Club, the few times I saw any of it, always made me cringe; "oh, there's a ball! We must look gorgeous, and the lead character must purchase a new dress!"
Perhaps it's all in the characterization. Is the "princess" fully fleshed out and human? If so, she's okay by me.
Of course, I grew up with four older brothers, so I probably have a warped sense of femininity anyway! :D
This is good food for thought. I might have to tackle this in my own journal.
I don't think this is quite the crisis she thinks it is. It is her choice to shop at the big boxes like Target and Toys R Us who sell that princess image. I work at a small privately owned toy store. It is called "toys that teach" and has a clientele that want more for their kids than the vapid characters provided by the mainstream. If the parents want quality toys, they can be found. There are small toy stores like mine in every town. And we don't separate by gender. We sold five kitchens during christmas for boys. We sold Thomas the Tank Engine sets for girls. It has a lot to do with what the parents choose to expose them to. The few items we sell that could be considered "Princess" are our least popular, mostly sold to unknowing fathers or uncles who come in alone and don't know what they are looking for and buy the first pink thing we show them. If she has a problem with her daughter being a princess she shouldn't blame corporate america, she could try to expose her to different toys and new types of play.
I don't think this is quite the crisis she thinks it is. It is her choice to shop at the big boxes like Target and Toys R Us who sell that princess image.
It definetely is not her choice. It's her daughter's. Believe me, when I was young, my mother was only buying "good" toys for me and my brother. But all our friends had Barbies and Playmobil and so we threw the toys she baught away and started nagging her for two years until she gave in. It was really all my friend's fault. I liked the stuff I had until she told me how cool her stuff was and that mine was boring. When you're that young (4-7), you always do what your parents/friends tell you. I mean... my favourite colour was pink because of her, a colour I hated before and afterwards.
I mean, I'm sorry, but I think the lady in that article is overreacting like woah. All these abstract patriarchal "oppressions" are oppressive only if you want them to be.
I think Lois Griffin (from Family Guy) said it best: feminism is about choice. What right does anyone have to question the choices I make about the woman I am. If my only aspiration is to find Mr Right and get married and take care of the kids, what right does anyone else have to say I'm wrong.
Feminists are so hardcore against these kinds of dreams that some girls/women have, I don't think they realize just how oppressive their being in their turn. Women who choose to be house wives, to stay home and take care of the kids, who don't follow a career, who like to dress up--according to the feminist manifesto they're in the wrong, they do nothing but further the subjugation of women.
But if it's what you like and what you want, how can you call that subjugation? Isn't that feminism in its truest form? Maybe you aren't competing with a man for the same job and the same pay, but you're doing what you want, what makes you happy, regardless of what others wanted of you or for you.
Being troubled that your daughter simply wants to be a little girl is troubling in itself. She's a little girl. She's not old enough to get it or see it the same way you do. The only way she's going to see patriarchal oppression in the Princess of her mind is if Mama tells her its there, if Mama tells her she's being oppressed.
It seems more oppressive to me to shoot down those things that make your daughter happy, that make her giggle, that may even inspire her, just because you have some tetchy knee-jerk reaction to it yourself.
Actually, third wave feminism *is* all about the woman's choice. The tricky part is figuring out where the "choice" comes from. For example, if you grow up believing that all women are good for is popping out babies and marrying some guy, it's not really an informed decision.
You really are taking a very negative view of the whole thing. Perhaps they weren't raising thinking that's "all they are good for", but maybe they were raised in a slightly more traditionalist style, stating that raising a family was a very large and important goal in life.
Which, for almost every culture besides ours, it is.
Intresting is my first comment. Yes, conditioning girls to believe that all they are good for is marriage, and as a babymachine is bad, but I don't understand her logic that princesses = submissive Suzy homemaker. To be fair to Disney while Sleeping Beauty, Snow White and Jasmine were fairly passive (due in part to the nature of the orginal story) they are outnumbered by Belle, Ariel, Mulan and Pocohontas all of whom rescue their "prince" - or at least aid in their own resuce - instead of being in need of rescuing.
If you look at it in another way, by their very nature princesses are empowering - they are at the top of the social ladder - and they teach every little girl that, no matter if they were royalty to begin with (eg: Ariel) or if they were not (eg: Belle) they too can have it all and rise to the top of the heap. That race (Pocohontas), diability (Ariel), gender (Mulan), wealth (Snow White/Sleeping Beauty [well when they met their princes they were poor :>]), being sheltered (Jasmine) or being smart (Belle) won't stop you from having a happy ending.
Personally I think playing princesses is much more healthy than playing with Bratz or someting similar, at least while Disney may have some unrealisitic figure proportions, it is all about the romance and the princesses are (acoording to their culture) modest and beautiful not whoreish and trashy.
Personally, I agree with Teague. I don't think it makes a damn bit of difference what you play with as a kid. Me and my brothers pretty much played with the exact same toys (as theirs were always more interesting than mine) and we ended up three very, very different people as adults.
Besides that, there are better ways to take a dippy trend like Princesses and subvert it so that your little girl is getting the right message. Kids learn about the world from all aspects of their enviroment. Not just one or two. If she doesn't like what Disney's Princesses teach, then why not find books about other princesses who are stronger/more interesting/less helpless and read those to her kid?
My aunt, who always sent me books as a kid, is really conscious of those kinds of things and of women empowerment, and she bought me this for Christmas one year.
I mean, there are ways to take trends that you don't like or messages to kids that you see that don't necessarily reflect your values and subvert them so that they do.
Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with feminism. And I think it's admirable to want your daughter to strive to have more and be more than some piece of pretty eye candy on a man's arm. But the devil's in the details, and you have to understand and respect your kid's personality too. There's nothing wrong with being a girlie-girl feminist. While I personally believe that make-up and high heels are evil and tools of the devil, that has more to do with my personality and disposition than some kind of mastermind plan behind keeping the woman down. Some girls want the hundred thousand dollar wedding with the princess wedding dress and everything. More power to 'em if they've got the money. I personally think they're nuts, but then, I'm sure they'd feel the same about eloping at a court house. *shrugs* You are who you are, you know?
It's like the video games lead to school violence bullshit. Like video games and TV and coloring books hold more influence over how a child develops than their parents or their personal relationships? That's cracked.
If she doesn't want her daughter to be a whiny helpless spoiled brat of a princess than all she has to do is not treat her and raise her like one, and problem solved, end of story. Past that, as pathetic as some of Disney's protrayals might or might not be, they aren't going to wildly alter someone's life without a hell of a lot of help from the parent. Because seriously? No five year old can afford to buy Disney's entire line of Princess wear or Barbie's collection of princess dolls without some serious parental help. >_>
And I've tried to read that fusking article five times and have not made it through yet. That lady needs an editor if she's going to publish it in places that are not of a bloggish nature. -_-
"What's more, just because they wear the tulle doesn't mean they've drunk the Kool-Aid. Plenty of girls stray from the script, say, by playing basketball in their finery, or casting themselves as the powerful evil stepsister bossing around the sniveling Cinderella. I recall a headline-grabbing 2005 British study that revealed that girls enjoy torturing, decapitating and microwaving their Barbies nearly as much as they like to dress them up for dates. There is spice along with that sugar after all, though why this was news is beyond me: anyone who ever played with the doll knows there's nothing more satisfying than hacking off all her hair and holding her underwater in the bathtub."
I have come as close to hating someone as I possibly can reading this "woman's" post. So many things of what she said was just wrong. However her comment about the dolls being held under water being satisfying, I don't get. I had 3 daughters who liked playing with barbies. And while I do recall them cutting Barbie's hair, I don't recall any drownings. I think this woman needs therapy (I am not kidding) and I question her ability to raise her child. I grew up during the big feminist movement. I never cared for these women. They were men haters first and foremost and feminine haters as a close second.
I am in awe of all of your post. You were all so articulate and brief. lol
Wow... Amen to that. Ok, seriously... slap that chick. The problem there is that mom still thinks we should be out burning our bras (Um, hell no.. I buy my shit at Victoria's Secret and besides, loosing these things might hurt someone... You know, like, me.) and she is devastated that her daughter may be turning out to be a girlie-girl. Would I be a little disappointed? Yup. I would hope that my little girl would be the horseback riding, skiing, tree climbing tom boy that I was... but if not, I'll deal. She obviously can't deal. Shit, even I had Barbies and played dress up, and even did the "Bride" thing when I was little... Ain't no princesses in this house... just one Queen Bitch. ;->
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 04:05 am (UTC)...would they prefer it if little girls aspired to be crack whores? o_O;;
no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 04:21 am (UTC)Not to mention poor Jasmine in Kingdom Hearts who's all "Oh, Aladdin!" and "Eek!" now. x.x Mergh.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 04:39 am (UTC)Nothing wrong with being a princess, but I don't know why they had to dumb them down.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 07:38 am (UTC)I don't think girls are looking at these princess in the same way we older, jaded, and more readily capable of extoling the themes and underlying messages adults. I think for more little girls, "Princess" is synonymous with "special" or "important".
You're not just another little girl the dentist has to exam. You're worth his time and his attention. You're not just one more little girl the lady at the counter has seen today. You're worth noting and seeing and singling out.
I see similar reactions when I hand each kid individually a toy or peace of candy after I scan it at my register. I've litterally seen little boys puff up when I hand them a bag and say, "Thank you, sir."
Girls aren't seeing "patriarchal oppression" or simpering, helpless maidens. They're seeing someone special and important. Some worthy of notice.
I think I'd've been rather sad if, when I was five years old, I thought my mother didn't want me to be a Princess.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 04:33 am (UTC)I also don't recall being so gender stupid before 6 or 7.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 04:51 am (UTC)I mean, when Aryan and Jewish wind up in the same sentence, something is just off.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 05:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 06:14 am (UTC)However, it took me until college to get over the societally imprinted concept that I had to be looking for Mr. Right and planning to get married in order to be happy.
Here's where I confess to watching a lot of cartoons:
To me, it's the difference between WITCH and Wynx Club. WITCH is just fine by me; the girls are certainly feminine, but they're also typical kids rather than glorified ideals. Wynx Club, the few times I saw any of it, always made me cringe; "oh, there's a ball! We must look gorgeous, and the lead character must purchase a new dress!"
Perhaps it's all in the characterization. Is the "princess" fully fleshed out and human? If so, she's okay by me.
Of course, I grew up with four older brothers, so I probably have a warped sense of femininity anyway! :D
This is good food for thought. I might have to tackle this in my own journal.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 06:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 06:22 am (UTC)Perhaps it's all in the characterization. Is the "princess" fully fleshed out and human? If so, she's okay by me.
So much WORD.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 07:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 12:19 pm (UTC)It definetely is not her choice. It's her daughter's. Believe me, when I was young, my mother was only buying "good" toys for me and my brother. But all our friends had Barbies and Playmobil and so we threw the toys she baught away and started nagging her for two years until she gave in. It was really all my friend's fault. I liked the stuff I had until she told me how cool her stuff was and that mine was boring. When you're that young (4-7), you always do what your parents/friends tell you. I mean... my favourite colour was pink because of her, a colour I hated before and afterwards.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 08:06 am (UTC)I think Lois Griffin (from Family Guy) said it best: feminism is about choice. What right does anyone have to question the choices I make about the woman I am. If my only aspiration is to find Mr Right and get married and take care of the kids, what right does anyone else have to say I'm wrong.
Feminists are so hardcore against these kinds of dreams that some girls/women have, I don't think they realize just how oppressive their being in their turn. Women who choose to be house wives, to stay home and take care of the kids, who don't follow a career, who like to dress up--according to the feminist manifesto they're in the wrong, they do nothing but further the subjugation of women.
But if it's what you like and what you want, how can you call that subjugation? Isn't that feminism in its truest form? Maybe you aren't competing with a man for the same job and the same pay, but you're doing what you want, what makes you happy, regardless of what others wanted of you or for you.
Being troubled that your daughter simply wants to be a little girl is troubling in itself. She's a little girl. She's not old enough to get it or see it the same way you do. The only way she's going to see patriarchal oppression in the Princess of her mind is if Mama tells her its there, if Mama tells her she's being oppressed.
It seems more oppressive to me to shoot down those things that make your daughter happy, that make her giggle, that may even inspire her, just because you have some tetchy knee-jerk reaction to it yourself.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 08:27 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 11:32 am (UTC)Which, for almost every culture besides ours, it is.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 01:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 08:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 09:27 am (UTC)If you look at it in another way, by their very nature princesses are empowering - they are at the top of the social ladder - and they teach every little girl that, no matter if they were royalty to begin with (eg: Ariel) or if they were not (eg: Belle) they too can have it all and rise to the top of the heap. That race (Pocohontas), diability (Ariel), gender (Mulan), wealth (Snow White/Sleeping Beauty [well when they met their princes they were poor :>]), being sheltered (Jasmine) or being smart (Belle) won't stop you from having a happy ending.
Personally I think playing princesses is much more healthy than playing with Bratz or someting similar, at least while Disney may have some unrealisitic figure proportions, it is all about the romance and the princesses are (acoording to their culture) modest and beautiful not whoreish and trashy.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 11:28 am (UTC)She's an idiot.
She honestly thinks that any one of those things is caused by marketing? Did the last 1000 years teach people like her nothing?
Shoot me, please.
no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 03:49 pm (UTC)Personally, I agree with Teague. I don't think it makes a damn bit of difference what you play with as a kid. Me and my brothers pretty much played with the exact same toys (as theirs were always more interesting than mine) and we ended up three very, very different people as adults.
Besides that, there are better ways to take a dippy trend like Princesses and subvert it so that your little girl is getting the right message. Kids learn about the world from all aspects of their enviroment. Not just one or two. If she doesn't like what Disney's Princesses teach, then why not find books about other princesses who are stronger/more interesting/less helpless and read those to her kid?
My aunt, who always sent me books as a kid, is really conscious of those kinds of things and of women empowerment, and she bought me this for Christmas one year.
And, I was talking with Tygs the other day about the Enchanted Forest books.
I mean, there are ways to take trends that you don't like or messages to kids that you see that don't necessarily reflect your values and subvert them so that they do.
Personally, I don't think there's anything wrong with feminism. And I think it's admirable to want your daughter to strive to have more and be more than some piece of pretty eye candy on a man's arm. But the devil's in the details, and you have to understand and respect your kid's personality too. There's nothing wrong with being a girlie-girl feminist. While I personally believe that make-up and high heels are evil and tools of the devil, that has more to do with my personality and disposition than some kind of mastermind plan behind keeping the woman down. Some girls want the hundred thousand dollar wedding with the princess wedding dress and everything. More power to 'em if they've got the money. I personally think they're nuts, but then, I'm sure they'd feel the same about eloping at a court house. *shrugs* You are who you are, you know?
It's like the video games lead to school violence bullshit. Like video games and TV and coloring books hold more influence over how a child develops than their parents or their personal relationships? That's cracked.
If she doesn't want her daughter to be a whiny helpless spoiled brat of a princess than all she has to do is not treat her and raise her like one, and problem solved, end of story. Past that, as pathetic as some of Disney's protrayals might or might not be, they aren't going to wildly alter someone's life without a hell of a lot of help from the parent. Because seriously? No five year old can afford to buy Disney's entire line of Princess wear or Barbie's collection of princess dolls without some serious parental help. >_>
And I've tried to read that fusking article five times and have not made it through yet. That lady needs an editor if she's going to publish it in places that are not of a bloggish nature. -_-
no subject
Date: 2007-01-05 05:32 pm (UTC)Blah
Date: 2007-01-05 06:36 pm (UTC)I have come as close to hating someone as I possibly can reading this "woman's" post. So many things of what she said was just wrong. However her comment about the dolls being held under water being satisfying, I don't get. I had 3 daughters who liked playing with barbies. And while I do recall them cutting Barbie's hair, I don't recall any drownings. I think this woman needs therapy (I am not kidding) and I question her ability to raise her child. I grew up during the big feminist movement. I never cared for these women. They were men haters first and foremost and feminine haters as a close second.
I am in awe of all of your post. You were all so articulate and brief. lol
no subject
Date: 2007-01-06 02:45 am (UTC)