You know...

[maderr]

I'm really getting sick and fucking tired of the nanobashing I keeping seeing here and there.

Christ all fucking mighty do the professional and more toward professional writers get that the world does not revolve around them in any way, shape or form. Fuckin bloody hell grow the fuck up and get over yourselves -__-

Nano is not primarily for professional writers, or even writers with the potential to be professional. It's mostly for amateurs, beginners, or people who more often than not have to put writing second or third place in their lives. It's about the challenge and the fun, and pushing yourself where ordinarily you wouldn't. It's not about being great or wonderful or professional or bloody fucking perfect.

I am so goddamn sick of the snotty assholese I should be considering peers. Christ, I'm so sick of it. I've made enemies of erastes, logos philos, and I'm pretty sure at least half the torquere authors have voo doo dolls of me. I can't help it, I have my standards and I hold other so-called professional-caliber writers to those standards (and I'm sorry if that sounds egotistical, I do like to think sometimes that I could be professional someday, if only I could actually get publishsed somewhere *sigh* but that's a different rant).

What I don't do is hold those who only do this for fun, as a hobby, or whatever to the same standards. I don't know if that's good or bad, but it's no different to me than my swimming. I am a very good swimmer, my parents drilled Sammie and I -- we got so good at one point our instructor had to make a special class because the highest level they had was still too easy. I used to compete (though not for very long, granted). I would never expect everyone to swim like me. That's stupid. Someone who only likes to splash around the pool and play Marco Polo is totally fly with me; he doesn't have to race me (which I love to do). There are other people for that.

So all you snotty bitches putting down the nano'ers cam KMA and no I don't care if this is about to land me in wankland. Fuck it. I'm tired of people trash talking my peeps. God fucking forbid people have a bit of harmless fun. If you don't want to play with us, then go find a different pool to pee in.

And if I'm kinda sorta picking fights, it's probably time for this loud-mouthed bitch to take herself to bed.

Peace out.

Comments

[nanthimus.livejournal.com]

Too fucking right!

[twilight-angel.livejournal.com]

Okay, I must be too immersed in grad school-land, but...people are bashing NaNoers? Really? But...why? It's a great achievement to finish a novel, no matter how crappy it might be. I mean, cardinal rule of writing is the "Shitty First Draft." 50,000 words or a complete novel, whichever: great accomplishment. Why then the bashing? I...I just don't get it.

[lisiche.livejournal.com]

That was my reaction. "...people are bashing Nano?"

And whoever they are, it feels like almost like a personal attack, since Nano is for people like me. The "I'll do it later, I swear." wannabe writers who either don't have the ambition or the time do to it without that little push, even if it's just an internet challenge.

...never mind that I've failed the last two years. XD ...Not fairing to well this year so far, BUT THERE'S STILL TIME LEFT, AND THE WORD COUNT IS INCREASING. If gradually.

Darn you, 'professionals'! Leave me and my ilk alone!

[mewschangeling.livejournal.com]

From what I've heard, the worst offender does this lovely frothing rant every November.

Must be the only way he can get any attention.

[gossymer.livejournal.com]

O__O

SAY IT LIKE IT IS.

*applauds wildly*

Though my f-list as a whole seems very excited about Nano so I can't help wondering what brought this on XD

[shattereternity.livejournal.com]

O__o people bash nano writers??? I find it freaking amazing that someone can finish a novel length piece of work.

[(Anonymous)]

I complety agree. I have had contact with one person you mentioned. I had asked for a sort of character list because she used many characters in her series (a LOOONG one) that had similiar sounding names, and there were titles etc... that made it very confusing to someone like me who can barely remember my own name at times (names are something I can't remember, I can remember plots, but not the name, fandom, characters, author of stories, which makes it interesting when I want to read a specific story. :D) I consider her stories pretty good, but she almost lost me when she replied because she made it sound like only idiots wouldn't be able to keep up with the characters. And yet, I have had contact with many other authors, you included, that while they aren't 'professional' are kind and very polite in answering requests, no matter what the answer to the request is or what the request itself is.

I love to read and I have read thousands of stories, from storebought to online in many different genres and fandoms. One thing I have learned that professional doesn't equal good. Many authors I have read online, I would GLADLY buy their novels in paperback form if I had the money and they had them in paperback, while many of the novels I have paid for, I wished I hadn't even bothered. And the thing is, to me, from what I have seen, at least one of the authors you mentioned I wouldn't consider professional as I don't really consider self publishing to really be professional (because anyone could do it so it isn't really a measure of your talent) (also remember when I mentioned that professional doesn't equal good and non-professional equals bad) So that person doesn't really have a right to look down their nose at others. (of course no one does)

I think it all boils down to they want to make their writing look better and they think this will.

And I do think that you have the talent to become a professional writer someday (in fact if there were more publishers that published slash stories, you could be one now)

I can't think of anything else to ramble on about, so let me just close to say I loved your new vampire story (the one that seems to be locked from comments) and I hope that your stories start cooperating (need chocolates to bribe them or how about a whip?)
Catherine

[jessara40k.livejournal.com]

but she almost lost me when she replied because she made it sound like only idiots wouldn't be able to keep up with the characters.

She was the stupid one then. I can name four series publishes by professional authors that have a list of characters either at the beginning of most of the books or the end. (the Kushiel books by Jacqueline Carey; The War of Light and Shadows by Janny Wurts; The Heirs of Alexandria by Mercedes Lackey, Dave Freer and Eric Flint; and the 1632 alternate history books by Eric Flint and multiple collaborators) And that's just what I can think of off the top of my head - I'd probably be able to find more if I looked through my books at home.

[maderr.livejournal.com]

*snort* Do you know how many times a day I have trouble remembering names? People write me and go 'I really love Character X' and I have to stare at my screen for like five minutes before I can remember who X is. My own sister called me up once to talk about character Y and I had to open up files until I remember who that was >_>;;;;

So somebody needs to get a life, for serious yo.

Thank you very much, my dear <3

[tsaiko.livejournal.com]

LOL. I thought I was the only one who did this. Sky emailed me once talking about some character in a story and I had to email her back and ask "Which of my stories was this again?" Then I had to open the file and find the damn character before I could even begin to sound intelligent.

[skylark97.livejournal.com]

Amen sista friend. Writing is a personal thing done for personal reasons. And when you get right down to it, the only person you should be competing with while doing it is yourself. I mean, how do people get like that? Thinking that they're god's gift to writing and that they somehow are so perfect at it that they get to sit on high and judge everyone around them? Ooh, I just want to pinch their heads off sometimes, they're so annoying. I wish they'd just go stand in front of a mirror or something so that they could just be enthralled with themselves and leave the rest of us out of their narcissistic ramblings.

And, you know, those who can't put down others in order to make themselves look better. And kudos to you for calling them on it, because it's a shitty way to be. It's one thing to be insecure about your writing. It's another thing entirely when you take that insecurity as an excuse to crap on someone else's day. I've seen butthead one comment in your journal before and there's not lost love there. And butthead two has pissed off at least four or five people that we have friended that I know of, me included, and I'm sure that there are more in the woodwork, so no matter how freaking fantastic people tell me her shit is, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole because she's just been such an unpleasant person to see and deal with.

*hugs* I'm just saying that there's a reason we all hang out with you and not with them. *hearts*

[remote45.livejournal.com]

I hate when anyone puts someone down for trying. We may not all have talent, but desire to create should never be stifled. As I am fond of saying, during his life, most didn't think Van Gogh's work to be worth anything, but now his works are priceless.

[skylark97.livejournal.com]

Also, after reading the fandomwank by that James dude, I have two things to say.

1) Waaaaaay tiny penis. Seriously. I mean, nothing screams confidence and maturity like whining like a two year old in caps with pictures.
2) Dude, does he need a life. O_o;;

[maderr.livejournal.com]

I know, right? People say I have too much free time, sheesh.

[scatteredgray.livejournal.com]

The NaNo bashing is made of crazy. I be SRZ artist (in theory, at least), but I don't feel the need to put down everyone who enjoys playing with crayons. The only thing occurs to me is that they must not be very good writers to feel so threatened by NaNoWriMo.

[avalon13.livejournal.com]

Lol, you mentioned the 14 year old. Oh Meggie, you know that if they bring the shit here, we're going to hand their ass back to them on Royal Dalton crockery.

[cynbaby.livejournal.com]

I've had a run in with at least one of the people you've mentioned, and I know for a fact that they're a world class bitch.
Don't let what they say get to you. They're not worth your headaches.

[broken-moons.livejournal.com]

I'd noticed the bashing, yes, and every time I don't know whether to gape in disbelief or just roll my eyes at the antics of professionals who clearly are not good enough or do not have enough self esteem if they're feeling threatened by fun event such as NaNo.

I have to say that I get that they don't like the idea of thousands of crappy novel(la)s produced in November, because let's face it - for the majority of NaNo's, it just stays as a crappy novel (my own 05 efforts still haven't been edited). But I don't get why they get so upset about it. If a person discovers that they like writing, for themselves, just to be able to spend time in another world, in another person's head, and don't feel the need to perfect their work or publish it, what is it to those 'professionals'? If I were them, I'd be more worried that NaNo is making people see they want and can be a successful writer, get published, and steal readers. That's the bit that I'd feel threatened by, as a 'professional'. Luckily, I'm neither ^_^.

It's funny that you mention logophilos - I really like her stories. And I really like yours, too. The thought of talking to her scares me, though (okay, the thought of talking to you used to scare me, too). It feels kind of odd to me to know that two of my favourite authors don't get along ^_^;

The best thing to do is probably just keep writing the way we want to, and enjoy it as much as we can :) <3

[maderr.livejournal.com]

Heh. Maybe they're trying to nip the competition in the bud.

Ah, logos. I tried so hard for so long to like her. We're too different, I'm afraid. I'd rant at length about why I tend to despise her these days, but it's a personal thing that has no place here. You are, I'll say, the first trusted voice I've heard say her writing is good. Even my roommate, who has admitted has no standards or taste, does not care for logos.

I will say our final falling out was because I got tired of her bashing Americans. I left amicably enough, not wanting a fight, but about two minutes later she banned me from her LJs.

[broken-moons.livejournal.com]

*cries* I had a whole reply, and LJ ate it :(. Let's try again. *clears throat*

Maybe. But it's still a silly reason.

Heh. You have to know that I'm perfectly capable of loving utter crap, and most of my reading is intuitive. But yeah, I like her stories (I prefer her modern fantasy and sc-fi over her fantasy, but that may be because the fantasy is mostly earlier works and she has grown since then. Plus, the modern stuff has more pr0n. I don't know yet if I'd like the author herself. I joined her thisthingwedo but so far the one time when I commented her reply back was a bit curt and discouraged me from continuing the conversation (granted, my comment mentioned squicky things but we sorta asked for that in the OP). I don't know. I admire her writing, and that's enough for me.

[(Anonymous)]

Actually it was logos I was talking about earlier. Fortunatly I try not to let my likes and/or dislike of an author change how I view a story, but she almost succeeded in making me just give up on her, which would have been sad because I do like her fantasy (and you just can't find good, long original slash fantasy, or sci fi easily) and a couple of other stories (I don't read most of her sci fi or modern fantasy because it has stuff I don't read) (which this is also why I latched on to you, your Lost gods series hooked me, and the rest reeled me in ;)

This also isn't the only time I have seen a confrontation with her, a friend of mine has a listing of original slash, both complete and in progress, that can be found on the web, complete with links, and there have been several times when she has posted something, her opinion on things or whatever that logos has objected to and pretty much blasted her for.

The sad thing is is that kind of attitude can drive people off of writing. At one time, if I wrote and I ran into that type of attitude it would have stopped me from writing period.

Anyway, I seem to be rambling now, so I will stop.
Catherine.

The history of literature is full of examples

[(Anonymous)]

of great writers did not getting along LOL

And, of course, maderr should spit (as we call it in Russian) to people who harrass her and others. She has here devoted readers (me included) and it is enough, I guess.

Rose Red

[chilayse.livejournal.com]

I wasnt even aware people were bashing nano either. My biggest gripe with it is it's in November. November is a pretty busy month for me, so I've never even had a chance to participate in what I've always considered to be an exercise in banishing amateur writer procrastination.

What exactly are they saying?

ALL HAIL MADERR!

[dyoklako.livejournal.com]

*worships you*

you said it! OMG! YOU ARE MY GODDESS! XD

ALL HAIL maderr!!!

*bows*

[kalldoro.livejournal.com]

People are idiots. I don't particularly like nano-times because my flist gets SWAMPED by it. It's not that I don't think people should to it, I think it's a cool thing...it just gets a tad overwhelming at times.

Logos though...phew. I had my own run ins with her over stupid things and I stay far away now. I like her stories ok, but she's a bitch.

[tsaiko.livejournal.com]

Well you know the real reason why they do this, right? These "professionals" who rant and yell about NaNo are just worried that a bunch of amateurs will produce something better than them in less than 30 days. Otherwise, why would they care?

Are they so insecure in their abilities that the mere idea that anyone else would do what they do for a living for fun causes them to go into a frothing rage? Seriously. It's writing. According to them we should all worship at the alter of the almighty book because otherwise we devaluing the true meaning of THE WORD. Please.

If I ever finish rewriting my retelling of "East of the Sun, West of the Moon" and publish it on Lulu, I'm thinking of including on my cover "Winner of the 2005 NaNoWriMo" just because my sense of humor thinks it would be hysterical.

[zeffy-amethyst.livejournal.com]

So I have a question, how did these professional writers start out?

I mean there's a continuum from writer to published writer to author. So they've got to have started out someplace small and worked their way up. Or were they unlike the rest of us mere mortals and were either born with the gift or the talent was granted to them after they sacrificed their first child? Simply doing NaNo isn't the way to become a 'real' writer, that's true because there's editing and bloodletting and bouts of insanity involved as well, but it's a good start. Just knowing you can write that much is a huge boost to the ego. Lord knows some of us need it.

I hardly think they have any right to knock down someone's attempt to kickstart their writing. Writing's for fun and as far as I'm aware, there's no law saying that people shouldn't have fun doing the things they like to do just because some snob decided they do it better.

Icon for irony.

[koneikaa66.livejournal.com]

I think people should first try to respect others and their works. People trying to do something, give something (really "give" something) and wanting to share the results of what they truly work on shouldn't been bashed for their efforts.
I got a lil' chat with a friend about something like this because I was surprised by what she wrote, I told her I found her a little "harsh" (it wasn't about NaNo but about the fanfics she found around), but in fact she was angry with people that 1)don't give of themselves in their writing, making it kind of hollow [?] and 2) want people to read their stories and comment but can't accept any remark about it (constructive ones, not flames_those don't worth being spoken of)...
Also, being kind of shy, I've always admired people being able to express themselves and showing what they're working on, and that even more when the person isn't a "pro"*, even if it mustn't be easy on a "pro"* (different kind of pressure, but still pressure...). I'd like to think I respect for their works "pro"* and "no-pro"* writers because, even if differently, both are hard in their own way... Nano is a "way" to help people who want to work on something coming from them and as it is, I don't find it wrong... For the NaNoers, if you like to write and really want to work on something, go for it...
For me the important point is to be "implicated/involved/concerned" [?-you should get the idea_english isn't my maternal language], people who write just to do like others (some even "copying/plagiarizing") or write without giving a thought _nor anything else_ to their story, plot, characters,... those I don't like : it's like they try to mock the ones who really give something to their stories and then the difference isn't to be a "pro"* or not, it's to respect one's own work or not, as well as others'...
[*Isn't it sad that now being "pro" is more "doing something for payment" _or getting published here_ instead of being "skillful and conscientious" : of these two definitions I prefer the last one...And "amateur" isn't a flaw by its proper meaning, but people, now, tried to give it this meaning...]

[miikarin.livejournal.com]

Seriously, do people really have so much time on their hands? I'd kill for that much free time. :D

I haven't seen this in action, but knowing that it happens annoys and angers me.

Sometimes, I really can't believe people.

[sixpence1323.livejournal.com]

Aye - I hate snooty people. It's better to be a voodoo doll than to be a friends with an asshole. And people who think they're better in any way and treat others like poo deserve to become voodoo dolls themselves. Thus...

People often make serious matters out that which was only meant to be a game. (How sad, no?)

[polysamachan.livejournal.com]

Ahahaha...I find it a little funny, actually. See, my mum actually is a published author. Not self-published--several books published by a real and huge publisher. And while she doesn't do NaNoWriMo (she's usually writing one of her books or watching Heroes or something), she doesn't blast any of her friends who do. She actually just kind of sits back and boggles at the chaos. I know that if I decided to ever seriously try it, she'd support me in the fullest! After she called me crazy, perhaps.

Ahaha. I just asked her, and she says that she fully supports NaNoWriMo. She does it every time she writes a book, pretty much--writing a book in a month, that is. Her best friend is NaNoWriMo'ing this year. She thinks that the support system is great, and she thinks it's wonderful that a lot of people are trying it. "More power to 'em!"

...she would also like to note that this is the opinion of a New York Times bestseller. |D'' o mum

[maderr.livejournal.com]

^____^ Your mum rocks.

[goldenwolfwitch.livejournal.com]

Yeah, me it's my grandmother who's the author, and a winner of the Governor General award for literature at that. The year my sister and I did NaNo, she still had all her mind and she was insanely pleased that we were attempting the exercise (we both finished). So you have one New York Times bestseller and a winner of the Governor General's award who approve of NaNo versus a dude who's had two books published by an obscure publisher? He needs to get a life.

[madmax0r.livejournal.com]

Word!

I'm only too glad to just read the books and forget the author existed to avoid the drama of their RL opinions but that might be a little too progressive for them -.-

Oh my. Wonder what was *his* childhood trauma to spawn something like that.

The worst crime of all? Fellow's post wasn't even funny. If that's a satire, then roadkill is art.

*waves flag of NaNo encouragement*

[(Anonymous)]

I just have a slight request. Could someone point me to the place you read these posts in? What people have said has made me interested in reading it for myself, but I am not a writer and don't tend to view livejournals unless they belong to a writer I like, so I dont' even know where to begin to look for it.

If you don't want to, then no problem, just thought I would ask.

Catherine.

[maderr.livejournal.com]

This is where the bulk of it is:

http://flemco.livejournal.com/1973838.html?page=2#comments

[(Anonymous)]

This is the last I am going to post on this. (is that a sigh of relief I hear?)

Just wanted to say thanks for the link and can someone slip him a valium? he needs it.

Catherine.

[goldenwolfwitch.livejournal.com]

Wow. There are some very bitter, angry, fucked up people out there. Ones with violent tendencies. "I want to hunt them down and shoot them in the face"? Someone needs a straight-jacket.