All right

[maderr]

Time for a minor tirade. Politics and whatnot are generally not my thing.



It's true I haven't seen his precious movies. Why? For the same reason that in the end I opted not to see Passion. And believe me there are similiarities, though I think of the two, Mel is probably the more sincere (read stable).

Nothing is more dangerous than blind ideology. Nothing. Some of the worst moments in history were caused by people that were so in love with their own lofty ideas they didn't know left from right. Rather, right from wrong.

I've sort of been on the sidelines and whatnot for his damned 9/11 movie. I've heard tons about it, I've seen clips. I refuse to shell out nine bucks to see something that I already disagree with, though I suppose I shall eventually have to see it. I could've seen Bowling more or less for free. I didn't, because I loathe stuff like that. Except just from my position, and the posts of friends, I already know what I'm going to see.

Propoganda. Of the worst sort. I really despise it that people so quickly do an about face after seeing that movie. Anything that changes your mind that quickly? Should be questioned. Heavily. All it does is tell you the easy out you want to hear, b/c of course nobody likes going to war and all. So yes, the president is evil, the US is evil, blah blah fucking blah.

I have two friends - make that one friend and her husband - who bitch about this country ever single fucking time I'm with them. Yet I see them making no efforts to leave it. Why? Because quite frankly they'd never be treated half so well elsewhere as they would here. I *still* see red every time I remember the one argument I got into with them. It is the only time in my life I was that close to violence. The other two friends with us tell me they've never been so scared in their life as they were of me that night. Not going into, b/c it's making me mad again.

And who hear knows just how difficult it is to rule a country? Exactly. So fine, bitch about the poor decisions, taxes, wtf ever. But until you can do the job better? You should probably show a tad more respect.

This is taking a turn I hadn't expected. Blah. It's probably my military upbringing. It doesn't often show b/c above and beyond all things I despise making a production of the things most important to me, but I'm very patriotic. And it's not a blind devotion either. Like I said, I was raised in the military. My parents were backstabbed by said military. I still love it. I always will.

My original tirade was against Moore. I know a vast majority of people who are nothing short of scathing toward anyone who is blindly devoted to one religion or another. Why? Because blind devotion is not a healthy thing. What it is, is desperately clinging to something in a way that you never have to see the flaws. An artificial sort of comfort. "Ignorance is bliss" in a manner of speaking. And willful ignorance is nothing short of pathetic.

And yet those same people who deride the religiously blind are easily blinded themselves by Moore. Take a look at this and then tell me how grand you think the man is. I? felt vaguely ill by the end of it. It sounds like he's never touched a history book in his entire life.

Personally I think it says a lot that in the midst of all this fighting, I am warm and comfortable and able to bitch about this. That Moore has the time and luxury to make his damned movies. That all the violence killing our men is so far away. Doesn't that say something about our oh so horrible president? Maybe only in my head.

But like I said, this isn't my thing. I know offhand a dozen people who could destroy my arguments with no effort whatsoever. And I know there's stuff I'm forgetting to include.

Seriously though, if I hear one more word of praise for that man there's going to be some violence. I've studied people like him. They're not healthy. And they're no one to ever be admired.

My two cents anyway.

**edit** My sister makes a good point - it wasn't Mel who was really the blind one in his movie. More it was the critics and what not. Fair is fair.

Comments

[stardance.livejournal.com]

I really appreciate you posting that transcript. Moore is a jackass. He had no good arguments and reading what he said was actually pretty excruciating since it is obvious he is a moron.

The armed services of the US are volunteer. To say that those soldiers, sailors, and marines died for no reason is an insult to those who so bravely volunteered to go over and protect our national security and those whose lives were endangered under his brutal rule.

Also, I kind of resent the fact that he spoke about us as though we are babies. Bush is not sending babies. He is sending grown men and women who volunteered themselves to protect their country under the President, who, incidentally, was already president when I and the majority of the armed services enlisted (or reenlisted as the case may be). The fact that most of us are 17-22 years old does not make our consent less valid. Not according to the laws of the United States.

Sorry for ranting in your journal, but things like this make me mad, too. It's not easy fighting for a country who is half against you without even really getting to know what they oppose. *sigh*

Have a nice day ^__^;;

[maderr.livejournal.com]

*smooch*

I could not have said it better myself. Ye gods, everytime I hear of another soldier's death I get that much sadder.

Rany away. You have more right than me to do so. For what it's worth, those of you that do serve will always have my unwavering support.

[stardance.livejournal.com]

Thank you!! That really does mean a lot to me XD

[raielchan.livejournal.com]

Are you aware of the movie http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com
?

Anyway, I've seen Roger & Me and Bowling for Columbine. Both of his films bring up some good points and mention facts without judging them; however, the more I watched him the more I realized his tactic. He's an asshole and likes to jump to crazy conclusions simply to provoke a response from people. He also seems intelligent and has several good ideas he doesn't put in his movies, unfortunately. I watched both of those films courtesy of the library for free. I might see 9/11 if it were also free. It's a documentary so I think it should be. I'm not paying to have to endure watch it though I'm sure some of it may be amusing and/or educational. I kind of don't like the man much at this point.

Yeah, I didn't have a problem with The Passion in and of itself either. I didn't want to see it, but it was just a movie adaptation of a book (albeit some of the goriest portions). Though I was kind of sick of hearing about it all the time, Mel will still always be Mr. Mad Max and Lethal Weapon to me. I'm not throwing out my Mel film library ^^

[maderr.livejournal.com]

Having good points doesn't save the man, I think. To be trite, Robbes Pierre and Hitler had good points as well.


And I love Mel, don't get me wrong. I just don't think that Passion was the best idea ever.

[raielchan.livejournal.com]

Hm, I forgot to read that link you posted. God, listening to Bill O'Reily and Moore hurts my head. Moore must really adhere to the "never admit you're wrong" theory of "always being right."

Having good points doesn't save the man, I think. To be trite, Robbes Pierre and Hitler had good points as well.

Yeah, that's why I called him an asshole. It kinda makes me angry watching him act like such a stupid jerk. I can't even say he does what he does because he thinks it's for the greater good. I can say that every movie he's made has been to attack someone he hates.

...

Compared to Alien3, Passion was a great idea :)
Well okay, I can't really say that seriously without having seen it.

otoh.. you're listening to FOX news?

[unsee1ie.livejournal.com]

that.. well.. hrm. 9_9

you are a slasher tho', so.. there's hope. ;)

Re: otoh.. you're listening to FOX news?

[maderr.livejournal.com]

lmao. I get that a lot. I love fox news, can't help it. I guess we all have our faults ^_~

Re: otoh.. you're listening to FOX news?

[thealisonbailey.livejournal.com]

The other day, Fox played a clip from one of the late shows that was, shall we say, slashed? I forget the song, but it was a collection of Kerry/Edwards moments. XD You have to admit, they make a much better pair than Bush/Cheney.

[hayama-sb.livejournal.com]

I was flipping thru channels & caught part of that. Said "yea whatever" & decided I'd rather watch Pokemon on Cartoon Network than any more of that crap. I think I finally settled on BIG on Discovery (They were building the worlds largest Barbacue Grill. The lid alone on this thing weighed like 900lbs.)

Of course, I had to watch the new ep of MythBusters on Discovery that came on at 10pm last night. ^^

[maderr.livejournal.com]

Sounds like you probably made the less stressful decision.

I looove mythbusters.

[hayama-sb.livejournal.com]

http://shopping.discovery.com/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=55328&partnumber=700989

Go buy the DVD set of the show.

[audaxfemina.livejournal.com]

I quite agree. I have problems with people who don't seem to understand military history or even the history of the regimes we have gone to war with recently.

Nor this country's history either for that matter. Hitler attacked the US? When did that happen?

He's a fucktard.

[maderr.livejournal.com]

He certainly is.

And I'm not quite sure when Hitler attacked the U.S. I guess we missed that part.

[raielchan.livejournal.com]

Well, he did attack us with ideas.

The History Channel had a special on Hitler's programs to insinuate ideas into our country to soften us up.

Of course, I doubt Moore knew about that when making his claims (because he's a fucktard).

[audaxfemina.livejournal.com]

Michael Moore might do well to heed the following advice... in fact, many celebrities should.

Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt. -- Mark Twain

[nepenth.livejournal.com]

sometimes i see things because they raise questions. i recently saw 'passions' and while the girl with me was hissing, i remarked that while i could see where somethings did seem anti-semantic, this was one view point and if it encourages discussion between two different views on the same event then perhaps it did its job, only if they listen to each other. we recently saw Fahrenheit 9/11 together. while both us agreed that michael moore is a frothing, fanatic leftist extremist, the movie gave both of us a Huge new respect for the men and women of the armed forces and their families. i understand some people don't want to see/hear very graphic images. some of the footage of the dead soldiers and iraqis and the victims of 9/11 i wish i hadn't. some people have many other reasons. would i recommend watching it? yes. would i be upset of people didn't? no.

it took a week for the entire feelings of the movie to settle in me. i was Extremely upset by many of the topics covered in the movie and emotionally pained watching the unequivocal pain military families went through and the horrors that i couldn't fathom that people my age and older were witnessing/experiencing in iraq. it also reminded many people that war is an ugly thing, on any side. that war is a commitment not only to those we're supposedly fighting for but to those who have lived and died for our country.

moore's movie did have some valid questions and even if it were someone else running the country and not bush, i would still ask them. many of them i want to ask of our former president too. if these questions could be answered then i would be happy. truth always hurts, but i value the truth above many things. i know that its unimaginably tough to run a country, but i think personally the beauty of democracy is the ability to question your government. yes things are very Very polarized right now. there seems to be very little middle ground.

and while i am not standing up for moore, i will say his film did give me a greater respect for the people of the armed forces and their families. their heroism is too great to put in conventional words for me. and for that reason alone, though there are others, i am thankful i saw the film. and people can always agree to disagree. (sorry for the long reply...)

[maderr.livejournal.com]

no apologies, necessary, first off. I always like when people encourage my ranting offer their own opinions ^^

I remember your post about it a little while back. I could tell it really struck you. It's interesting that you say you learned an all new appreciation for the military...that's the first time I've heard that given as a reaction. And my impression of Moore is that he doesn't hold the military in high regard. I suppose that could be a mistaken impression on my part.

I have nothing against Passion, I'm mad at myself for giving that impression. Anything that..hmm, right word...I dunno, stuff that focused sets off my cynicism. Mostly because as I said, the more important something is to me, the closer I keep it. I'm sure there's something flawed about that. But it's largely because I think the louder someone is about their beliefs, the more it seems to me that they're trying to convince themselves. I don't hate Passion at all - more I hate the reaction it garnered. I thought it was treated unfairly, to be honest.

To be completely fair I probably should see it at some point. But I've seen the rough stuff before and I dont think I could stomach it again. That impact doesn't need to be made on me, and my impression thus far is that that is the only more positive reason to see it.

Heh, guess now I'm now I'm getting long ^_~

[nepenth.livejournal.com]

::hugs::

actually i was rather miffed at the lack of the media coverage on that part of moore's movie. i was actually shocked at how much he did care (and he didn't seem like a military lover to me either before i saw the film). i don't want to ruin much but he follows one family who has a son and daughter in iraq. and actually seems to have a high respect for the men and women who are fighting. there are some scenes of the soldiers in iraq that i swear could have been ripped from vietnam, but his anger at the some of the issues of the military recruiting is a blip of anger, his anger is about not enough support for the troups, that they are dying and need to be honoured for their bravery, that the senate and administration were cutting benifits, etc. there was alot of heartfelt emotion to the families with soldiers over there. a good portion of the documentary was spent on exposing many of us to the amazing bravery and courage of not only the soldiers, but their families. its a pity and a shame that *that* isn't talked about more.

i didn't think you had a thing against 'passions', i figured you were using it as an example. it is a very good example of two films that can help with your points.

i think the graphic content is a touchy issue. i personally dislike and can barely watch the towers collapse and most 9/11 footage without crying or getting very upset being a new yorker and it, well, hitting so close to the heart of a new york collective. sometimes its good to watch something then put it away. i remember watching holocaust news footage in a college history class. and then raw footage of hiroshima the day after the bomb was dropped. both really brought the an actuallity of WWII very close and really changed me as a person. but i don't think i could watch it again for a very long time to come. sometimes acknowledgement is good enough, sometimes too much exposure isn't good either.
the nice things about dvds is you can stop them, movies you can't. and sometimes that is a very good thing.
::snoggles:: sorry for the lengthy reply.

[skylark97.livejournal.com]

I really despise it that people so quickly do an about face after seeing that movie.

That I really don't get, because like Passion, I kind of thought of the movie as one of those "preaching to the choir" type of things. The fact that people actually change their minds after seeing them just really kind of hurts my brain.

I'm not for Bush. I hated the fact that he took us to war in the first place, I hate his whole "support the sanctity of marriage" pandering to the right wing, and I hate the atmosphere in which pointing out some of the mistakes he's made makes you "unpatriotic", but I didn't need a stupid movie to tell me that, which was why I didn't bother seeing it either.

From all the things I read/saw about that movie, it sounded like he ended up emotionally ranting instead of actually presenting a case, and in those circumstances, that's not a good reason to change any opinions, unless you're one who's easily swayed by emotional people and shoddy arguments. Mostly, I guess I just don't see how people can go into things like that movie or read articles or watch the news, and not realize that they are all biased and that everyone has an angle that they're trying to push. But then again, the US isn't terribly big on teaching (or at least, they weren't in most of the classes that were taught in my hs) that whole "logic" or "thinking for yourself" thing. Hard to test by multiple choice and all. >_>

[maderr.livejournal.com]

preaching to the choir" type of things

S'what I though too...but I've had a few friends who came out more anti-u.s. than when they went in.

Heh, I always forget you're not much for Bush. Myself, I guess I'm mostly ambivalent. He's made mistakes, and I thoroughly despise his stance on marriage...but I think the latter is going to be a long battle and his mindset is definitely of the old school. The most important battles aren't won in a day or even a decade, so most of the time I try not to let it bug me too much. I say try....

the US isn't terribly big on teaching (or at least, they weren't in most of the classes that were taught in my hs) that whole "logic" or "thinking for yourself" thing. Hard to test by multiple choice and all.

Ugh. Sad but all too very true, my friend. Our education system needs to be burned down and started over. Highschool especially was nothing but a waste of four years of my life.

[thealisonbailey.livejournal.com]

... *Looks both ways.*

I never talk politics for the simple reason some people would hate me just because of my registered party. (Grand Old Party? Elephants? The one not currently holding a convention? That's the one.) But... <3

Everytime I see that your "music" is listed as Fox News, I think, "There, someone understands me."

[maderr.livejournal.com]

Hee. Hooray for Elephants!

And this is my two cents for a long while. I'll be going back into hiding now ^_~

[abiona-sashenka.livejournal.com]

Not even touching that shit with a 110 foot pole.

ahahahaha

[amasugiru.livejournal.com]

dude that is waaaaay too short a pole for this shit.