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maderrI do not, in fact, hate vampires to the point I want nothing whatsoever to do with them.
What I hate is the sheer lack of creativity in dealing with them.
I swear everytime a new vamp story is released on Torq, it sounds just like all the others. There is nothing so drastically different that I go 'oh, that sound interesting' - though here I have to say that's not entirely true. They released a book about blind vampires.
Four of the most disappointing stories I've ever read in my life.
But there is vampire stuff I like, and I studied them to death back when I was researching embrace. The funniest part about the documentary I watched the other night was that I could have done a much better job presenting the history of vampires -- though I concede I know nothing about the modern clubs and rpg and cults and stuff. Still, I know the history. Lord Ruthven and Dracula were the books that set the world toward the vampires we know now, and beyond the obvious drawing upon of Vlad The Impaler by Bram Stoker, there was also Elizabeth Bathory (which the documentary mentioend) and Giles de Rais (which it didnt', because the documenary was spineless).
The scientific aspects were covered rather well, but let's face it -- precious few fangirls care about the scientific history of vampires. Why this body happened to still be in good condition, why it looked like it was fed. The vampire fandom, outside those who apparently live as vampires (as opposed to Christians and such? I don't know, that was sort of interesting, though the documentary did not do them justice I feel), is more interested in the romanticism that was brought to the fore by Anne Ricewho needs to be subjected to the cruelest torments in the darkest reaches of hell.
The angst. The pain. The suffering. The constant need to fuck. All sorts of whacked out shit. I admit I read most of those books, there was a couple of chars I even liked and I was willing to tolerate her aggravating writing style to read more about them (for the curious, I liked Armand and Marius - and man was his book a disappointment. I finally gave up entirely after that let down).
So these days I'm more frustrated by the fact that everyone does the same regurgiated crap instead of trying something new. Angsty Vamp Preys Upon Human With Whom He Falls In Love. Every now and then its a werewolf instead of a vampire, and there is token fighting between the "species who have always hated each other yet no reason is given for that hatred" before they're fucking like bunnies.
How exciting.
There are vamp stories I like, however. The top three are Vampire Hunter D, Hellsing, and Trinity Blood. I havae the comics/novels/anime for each, or will as they are released.
I think my greatest problem is that ultimately vampire/human can never really be made to work. Humans are food, I maintain and ever will that it's hard to have amorous feelings for your steak. Of course, this is often negated by the fact that humans, of course, are turned into vampires. Hence the Eternal Suffering and Torment of Men Forced to Feed Upon Their Fellowsthough given the frequency with which they score and how hot it apparently it is to have your blood sucked, I don't see the problem.
So I figured, once, that there was only a few ways such a relationship could ever really work. Either vamps are not considered Mortal Enemy #1, an idea that ultimately proved too cmplicated (at the time), or they are put in a position in which they are not predators, but slaves. To be even more demeaning, wouldn't it be fun to call them Pets?
This would also allow one to maintain the 'pretty' aspect of vampires - well dressed, fancy, someway or another part of High Society. Furthermore, it would allow one to play with the role of master/slave, and the concept of an unwilling vs. willing slave. Finally, all of these, one realized, would be perfectly suited to a vaguely victorian-type society, perhaps a trifle later - set in a period when much but not enough was known about medicine and blood and other such things. The sort of environment which would pay proper homage to the roots of fictional vampires, a true gothic type setting, with maybe somthing frilly - flowers, maybe -- to play counterpoint to the blood and illness and dark.
All it lacked was a fitting title - but upon reading bad fiction - ...by the vampire's dark embrace.
That is to say, I'm ticked off enough that I will shortly be rehauling and resuming work on Embrace.
Now I go to get coffee.
What I hate is the sheer lack of creativity in dealing with them.
I swear everytime a new vamp story is released on Torq, it sounds just like all the others. There is nothing so drastically different that I go 'oh, that sound interesting' - though here I have to say that's not entirely true. They released a book about blind vampires.
Four of the most disappointing stories I've ever read in my life.
But there is vampire stuff I like, and I studied them to death back when I was researching embrace. The funniest part about the documentary I watched the other night was that I could have done a much better job presenting the history of vampires -- though I concede I know nothing about the modern clubs and rpg and cults and stuff. Still, I know the history. Lord Ruthven and Dracula were the books that set the world toward the vampires we know now, and beyond the obvious drawing upon of Vlad The Impaler by Bram Stoker, there was also Elizabeth Bathory (which the documentary mentioend) and Giles de Rais (which it didnt', because the documenary was spineless).
The scientific aspects were covered rather well, but let's face it -- precious few fangirls care about the scientific history of vampires. Why this body happened to still be in good condition, why it looked like it was fed. The vampire fandom, outside those who apparently live as vampires (as opposed to Christians and such? I don't know, that was sort of interesting, though the documentary did not do them justice I feel), is more interested in the romanticism that was brought to the fore by Anne Rice
The angst. The pain. The suffering. The constant need to fuck. All sorts of whacked out shit. I admit I read most of those books, there was a couple of chars I even liked and I was willing to tolerate her aggravating writing style to read more about them (for the curious, I liked Armand and Marius - and man was his book a disappointment. I finally gave up entirely after that let down).
So these days I'm more frustrated by the fact that everyone does the same regurgiated crap instead of trying something new. Angsty Vamp Preys Upon Human With Whom He Falls In Love. Every now and then its a werewolf instead of a vampire, and there is token fighting between the "species who have always hated each other yet no reason is given for that hatred" before they're fucking like bunnies.
How exciting.
There are vamp stories I like, however. The top three are Vampire Hunter D, Hellsing, and Trinity Blood. I havae the comics/novels/anime for each, or will as they are released.
I think my greatest problem is that ultimately vampire/human can never really be made to work. Humans are food, I maintain and ever will that it's hard to have amorous feelings for your steak. Of course, this is often negated by the fact that humans, of course, are turned into vampires. Hence the Eternal Suffering and Torment of Men Forced to Feed Upon Their Fellows
So I figured, once, that there was only a few ways such a relationship could ever really work. Either vamps are not considered Mortal Enemy #1, an idea that ultimately proved too cmplicated (at the time), or they are put in a position in which they are not predators, but slaves. To be even more demeaning, wouldn't it be fun to call them Pets?
This would also allow one to maintain the 'pretty' aspect of vampires - well dressed, fancy, someway or another part of High Society. Furthermore, it would allow one to play with the role of master/slave, and the concept of an unwilling vs. willing slave. Finally, all of these, one realized, would be perfectly suited to a vaguely victorian-type society, perhaps a trifle later - set in a period when much but not enough was known about medicine and blood and other such things. The sort of environment which would pay proper homage to the roots of fictional vampires, a true gothic type setting, with maybe somthing frilly - flowers, maybe -- to play counterpoint to the blood and illness and dark.
All it lacked was a fitting title - but upon reading bad fiction - ...by the vampire's dark embrace.
That is to say, I'm ticked off enough that I will shortly be rehauling and resuming work on Embrace.
Now I go to get coffee.
no subject
Date: 2007-03-31 01:59 pm (UTC)People: Me! Take me! I have AB+! I have O-! I've been eating candy!
Shy vamp: Waaaaaah! *runs away*
Sexy vamp: Why does HE get all the luck?
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Date: 2007-03-31 02:20 pm (UTC)*LAUGH* That would rock. *scribbles note*
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Date: 2007-03-31 02:07 pm (UTC)Ahahaha, I can hear the squeeeing of Embrace fangirls around the world. ^_^
Also, there was an ad in Publisher's Weekly yesterday for a series of young girl's books, Hallowmere, I think, about 6 girls who must save the world from Vampiric Fairies!!! I thought of you. Though, the fairies seem to be clearly evil, so perhaps you'd approve... ^_^
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Date: 2007-03-31 02:20 pm (UTC)Vampire Fairies! Ahahahahaha. That sounds amusing, and different.
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Date: 2007-03-31 02:56 pm (UTC)ooooo, i'm curious, who's he? and now i want to write a vampire story just to see if you'd like my kind of vamp. {eg}
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Date: 2007-03-31 03:05 pm (UTC)Serial killer in France circa Joan of Arcn - he was one of her right hand men, I think. He liked to kidnap children, mostly boys, and do sadistic things to them. There's some argument, I think, as to how much of it he really did, but most seem pretty certain he was a sick fuck. There's all kinds of sites and stuff on him.
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Date: 2007-03-31 02:57 pm (UTC)8D You're really having fun with this vampire-ranting, arncha?
(Oh, oh! Look, no mention of Embrace! ... wait. Dammit.)
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Date: 2007-03-31 03:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-03-31 03:49 pm (UTC)The issue I always had (well one of the issues anyway) is that I never really got why vampires was supposed to be such a superior race. Vampires’ problems the most of the time are that they are sorely outnumbered. If you don't put them in a world where they’re somewhat equal numbers with humans, I imagine that there would be a hunt similar to the witch-hunt every time someone who was suspected to be a vampire showed up.
And what can they do to protect them selfs? Unlike demons, vampires’ abilities are limited to entrancing pray, bite hard, be very strong and fly. Well yeah that I'll help them a whopping lot when they are jumped by a mob. Plus, they have a too many weaknesses. Silver isn't hard to come by, neither is fire, not to mention crosses and garlic and stakes and what not. I see them like specie on the run rather than a ruling one.
As for the falling in love with food bit...since humans can become vampires and since I am fairly convinced that I would have a lot more respect for my steak if it could have long giving conversations with me I don't se that really as a problem...it is just soo oooooold. How hard is it to make a vampire fall in love with a vampire? What, are they immune to their own specie?
Uhm... Sorry for the rant, I'll butt out of your journal now.
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Date: 2007-03-31 03:59 pm (UTC)^__^ You're cool. You raise interesting points.
I never read Hamilton's stuff; the premises always sound blah and I do not hear good things.
You make a good point about their being superior, or not, as it were. They have the strength, the entrancing, but thre is a long list of weaknesses - esp. the whole daylight thing. It does seem that, as you say, they'd be more a race on the run and in hiding rather than oh so mighty.
Ahahaha, another good point. I concede it. Since vamps traditionally start out human, that would change the way they look at food. And clearly they must be, since all I ever see is the Anne Rice "vamps hate one another" thing or how they always stop loving the ones who turn them...
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Date: 2007-03-31 04:25 pm (UTC)Never got through Anne Rice. Tried more than once.
Trinity Blood and Vampire Hunter D are awesome, and I haven't looked into Hellsing, but it's on my To-Do list.
I can't say I'm unhappy about the turn of events that will lead you to work on Embrace. I absolutely enjoyed reading that story.
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Date: 2007-03-31 04:31 pm (UTC)At least I bothered to do research on the origins of vampire myths, and read the stories and books that started it all. I even managed to sit through "Nosferatu" without having a laughing fit once. Not many Anne Rice fans bother. Then the shit hit the fan from her "Tale of the Body Thief" on, the books started getting crappier, and it wasn't quite the same any more.
Erm, anyway. If you ever need phrases and words translated in Romanian (for a vampire story or anything else), do feel free to poke me. I guarantee correctness. I've seen some stuff done with online translators and it's the same as with French and German - they respect no grammar rules whatsoever. XD
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Date: 2007-03-31 04:48 pm (UTC)Oh good lord. You win. I think I would have killed me a few people.
Hey, that might be cool ^___^ I'll ponder it, that could be a nice touch for the vampires in Embrace. I bet that makes for some vastly amusing reads, though.
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From:no subject
Date: 2007-03-31 04:33 pm (UTC)...sorry 'bout that.
...I think I'll go read Geniuses again...
*lurks*
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Date: 2007-03-31 04:52 pm (UTC)Huff is one I've looked at, but something I wasn't going to buy withour recs ^___^ I do know a friend who is a huge fan. If I see them next time I'm dropping grocery money on books I'll pick it up ^^;;
No need to say sorry. I feel bad you think you must ^^;; I like when people speak up.
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Date: 2007-03-31 04:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-03-31 04:55 pm (UTC)That's pretty much what I hear from Hamilton fans everywhere.
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From:>_<
Date: 2007-03-31 04:49 pm (UTC)Besides her books, she's anti-fanfiction to an extreme degree and in 2000 had all fanfiction relating to her books removed from ff.net. o_O
EMBRAAAAAAAAACE. *squee*
Re: >_<
Date: 2007-03-31 04:57 pm (UTC)Yeah, I admit more than her stupid vampires I hate her attitude the most. She needs to fucking chill.
Re: >_<
From:Re: >_<
From:no subject
Date: 2007-03-31 05:43 pm (UTC)And on a rec note, Amelia Atwater-Rhodes? She plays with the darker side of this stuff a bit (as much as one can to still be mainstream supposedly YA fiction), and not along the same tired old plotlines. The last four she wrote center around shapeshifters rather than vamps, but they're all very good.
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Date: 2007-03-31 06:15 pm (UTC)But I'm glad you're picking up Embrace again. I liked that one. You're like a creative genious when it comes to taking standards and throwing them out the window infavor of non-standards. If that made any sense... >_>;;
As a side note, Trinity Blood is awesome. So is Vampire Hunter D.
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Date: 2007-03-31 06:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-03-31 07:33 pm (UTC)What the vampire considers human lima beans, merely lima beans they need to eat to survive? He hates the taste of them. One day, he sees a bean that looks like a gorgeous lady and they fall in love. He doesn't want to drink her.
As for the steak thing, it's not really accurate. Vampires are humans and therefore cannibals, or more accurately, parasites. You can be in love with someone and feed off of them. In fact, many non-vampire humans are parasites and do just that, in worse ways than vampires do.
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Date: 2007-03-31 07:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-03-31 08:19 pm (UTC)although that's to be forgiven; really good Italian is quite overwhelming, really!), expound upon what they want a vampire to be (bad-boys attitudes, snazzy in tight leather, and oozing sexual attraction like woe), and there you have it.However, when a person is limited to such characteristics and everyone winds up churning out the same-old, same-old, it doesn't bode well for the author. I personally think that people who are limited by such aspects aren't very good writers, anyway.
But I do happen to like the vampires who made appearances in Robert Aspirin's MYTH books, because one bunch was actually vampire cows who "herded" humans for food, while another bunch - in another world - had humans as the mythological villainous creatures.
"Eeeek! Humans! Run! Run for your lives!" *flaps away*
Comedy is really the only way to go to fin
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Date: 2007-03-31 08:42 pm (UTC)On that note, though, I was interested to hear about Embrace. After reading your summary, I was kind of in awe. Honestly, you possess one of the most creative minds I've ever really seen, on or offline.
Also, to add to a long list of commenters speaking up with their vampire recs: Carpe Jugulum by Terry Pratchett. The man is a comic genius, and he skewers vampire cliches. The image of a group of pale, aristocratic vampires with names like Maladicta trying to look "human" and calling themselves things like Mildred and Bob (in comparison to human "witches" painting their faces pale, wearing lots of black lace, etc.) is one that will never stop amusing me.
~DF
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Date: 2007-03-31 09:56 pm (UTC)~DF
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Date: 2007-03-31 08:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-03-31 09:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-03-31 10:06 pm (UTC)Will do ^__^
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Date: 2007-03-31 10:55 pm (UTC)But you are going to .. *Revamp* Embrace? X3 X3 X3
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Date: 2007-04-01 03:03 am (UTC)http://www.amazon.com/Hunt-Laws-Blood-Susan-Sizemore/dp/0441006604/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-1006768-9419814?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1175396362&sr=1-1
Also Atwater-Rhodes turns out some nice vamp stories.
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Date: 2007-04-01 03:57 am (UTC)the Blade trilogy goes into some more original ways of how people are turned, the first one is by far the best in my opinion.
Underworld goes into the history of why vampires and werewolves are fighting, and how they are made in the first place. it mentions humans enslaving both werewolves and vampires, and using them as protectors. its also set in a modern-victorian-ish setting that uses some of the more stereotypical vampires without most of the "woe is me" vampires who fall for humans (the main character falls for a werewolf tho)
buffy is also fun to watch, many of the vampires there love being how they are, as Spike said "humans are like happy meals with legs"
have fun, you can rent almost all of those at a video store, and at my library at least you can check out series of Buffy
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Date: 2007-04-04 06:48 am (UTC)4 tales each with a different take and all with a M/M bent to them. I would be happy to mail you the book to save you from having to pay for it if you'd like to try it?
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Date: 2007-04-04 09:40 am (UTC)Oh, I've seen that book before. Always wondered if I should try it ^_^ Guess I will - but you don't have to send. I'm terrible about mailing things back.